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FranceFan
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Jan 19, 2006, 8:59 AM
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Links and directory links
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There are many factors that affect search engine position. However, the dominant factor is links to your site. If you have a sufficient number of good links, your position in the search engines is virtually assured (although some minor attention to the other factors is also important). Without links, success with competitive keywords is impossible, even if one gets every other factor right.
So, given that links are critical, what type of incoming links should one look for? Well, almost any type of incoming link is good, but the ideal link would be:
- From a high PR (PageRank) page
- Which has few other outgoing links on it (pages with many outgoing links do not boost your ranking as much as pages with few links)
- Which uses your keywords in the anchor text of the link
- Is on an on-topic page of an on-topic site (in other words, the page is about the same topic as your keywords)
This is the ideal situation and in general the majority of incoming links will not meet all of these criteria. However, one tries to get as near to this as possible. When someone offers a link, one can often request the type of anchor text and maybe even the originating page. So, one does have influence if not control.
One good source of links is directories. Unlike other people’s sites, one can often get added to the directory simply by asking (if one has a quality website). One can also often choose the anchor text. Unfortunately, few directories meet the criteria of high PR and even fewer meet the criteria of “on-target”. That is why one often looks for niche directories. For example, if one has a French Property site, then registering with a French Property directory can provide a lot of benefit.
Hope the above is of use. If you have any questions, please post them against the thread or EMAIL me direct (dougstewart@france-property-and-information.com)
Regards,
Doug Stewart
Webmaster: www.directory-france.com
Webmaster: www.france-property-and-information.com/directory-worldwide-property-and-services/
(This post was edited by FranceFan on Jan 19, 2006, 9:00 AM)
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Dave R
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Jan 26, 2006, 8:18 AM
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Re: [FranceFan] Links and directory links
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Links have some uses - but they are very limited. Ultimately your ranking will depend on the content and quality of your website.
10 million links to a page containing nothing - will never make a blank page number one for say the search argument “Ebay”.
Which kinda makes it obvious. Link programs have little to no effect on your ranking - unless you're counting the one link search engines needs to index your site.
The bottom line is that although links do have a very small part to play - they are no way near as important as that stated by Doug.
Key words are also very limited, along with meta name descriptions etc.
How you link to the content in your own website - from pages within your website - can have much more influence than inbound links.
Google post a warning about SEO’s and link programs:
Quote: Avoid SEOs that talk about the power of "free-for-all" links, link popularity schemes...
http://www.google.co.uk/webmasters/seo.html
So all you need is one link to your website and a website that is loaded with good design and content to match - then the so called SEO will take care of itself.
Many years ago I published a website about SEO - it was number one for SEO, or search engine optimisation. It paid no profit - so I changed the content to something more useful.
However here are some useful tips for SEO.
1. Your page titles should reflect the content of the page - the home page title should start with your trading name - page titles can be up to 15 words long.
2. Meta name descriptions should be interesting and slogan like.
3. 5 relevant keywords will be more useful than using the 1000 character maxim - full of irrelevant keywords.
4. Link exchange programs can seriously damage you ranking.
5. Use only 1 h1 per site, or stretch it a bit to 1 h1 per page. All other headings below h1 should be h2 or even h3 descending.
6. Never try to dupe search engines - do not offer SEO services if you do not understand the subject. The internet has many archives - you could end up eating your words.
Food for thought: Why do SEO’s focus on SEO services - Answer: Because there’s not enough money in Gold, Oil, Property and Diamonds. LOL...
Sorry Doug
But I disagree with your proposal.
Regards
Dave
(This post was edited by Secret Agent on Jan 26, 2006, 8:23 AM)
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FranceFan
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Jan 26, 2006, 11:35 AM
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Re: [Secret Agent] Links and directory links
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Dear Secret Agent
Thank your for your response.
I think we can agree that links, on-site content and on-site optimisation are all important. Where we appear to disagree is on their relative importance.
In the scenario you describe of lots of links to a blank page, it is quite possible that a high ranking will not be achieved. However, I would suggest that this isn't really a frequent scenario. It is exceedingly rare (if ever) that you will find hundreds of high-quality links to a blank page.
What one will find occassionally is high-quality pages with very few links. Such pages will seldom rank high for competitive keywords (although they do stand a chance for non-competitive keywords). I've taken many such pages and moved them from very poor rankings to good rankings (even for very highly competitive keywords) simply by obtaining numerous high-quality links. No on-site changes were necessary.
I've also done the opposite, of taking a site (and individual pages) with lots of links and improved their position by making the sort of on-site changes you describe (not exactly the same, but the same sort of thing).
In my experience, unless the page or site is very poorly designed, the links were by far the most important factor. When I look at highly ranked sites for highly competitive keywords, I often see sites with limited content (but many links) rank well above sites loaded with content and on-site optimisation (but weak on links).
As to the importance you assign to content, I would agree that it is not only important but I will go further to state that it is becoming even more important (the reasons are too detailed to discuss here, but a central one is that some alternative methods of securing ranking are being down-graded by the search engines). However, one must recognise that the importance is due to two factors: the on-site value in itself and as a way of attracting links. Again, unless the page/site is very poorly designed, it is the second factor which is most important. I've seen high-content sites which have been scaned and registered by the search engines for many months sit nowhere in the search results until related sites were contacted, told about the excellent content and invited to link to it.
I would also like to clarify the discussion reference "link programs". They are often associated with "link farms", the indiscriminate exchange of links regardless of quality or subject. Although some people can still gain benefit from them, I would agree that for most people they should be avoided. The people working for search engines do not like having their software mainipulated and will punish such manipulation when and where they can. That being said, there is some very good "link program" software available which can be used to find quality sites with similar or related topics, which are a good source of incoming, outgoing and 2-way links. Just because "link programs" are often abused (and 98% of the link requests I get are from such abuse), does not mean one should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Properly used they are ethical, useful, and can build relationships which increase the value of the site (value in terms of informational value as well as the other types).
So, in summary, while I agree with you that on-site content and optimisation are important, I'm afraid we disagree on your starting point "Links have some uses - but they are very limited|".
Also, I believe that you may have a misunderstanding reference my post, when you refer to my "proposal". There is no "proposal" within my post. If you are implying that I am selling SEO services, you are mistaken.
All that being said, I do agree that getting the on-site stuff correct is very important as well, and I agree with most of your suggestions about this.
Best regards,
Doug
Webmaster: www.directory-france.com
Webmaster: www.france-property-and-information.com/directory-worldwide-property-and-services/
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Dave R
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Jan 26, 2006, 12:20 PM
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Re: [FranceFan] Links and directory links
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Hi Doug
No I wasn't suggesting you were offering a SEO service - just your proposal that links are the dominant factor. I would propose that quality content is the dominant factor.
I would also suggest that you get a better ROI - working and adding on your own website - than you do by adding your details to others.
SEO is very nearly a thing of the past.
Regards
Dave
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alpine
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Jul 12, 2006, 8:24 AM
Post #5 of 10
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Re: [Secret Agent] Links and directory links
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>>SEO is very nearly a thing of the past.
Actually it is a thing of the past, present and future - but search engine marketing does not encompass ONLY links or ONLY content but a great deal more than both of these rather limited viewpoints.
For example, is the content that I am writing what people are interested in or looking for? What content are quality sites in my area attracted to when it comes to them citing external sites? My "space" may be competitive but is there an ancillary area or a related subject which is largely untouched by similar sites to mine? What could I provide to my users that my competitors aren't? What do my server logs tell me that my users are looking for but is not yet contained on my site? What are the current hot topics in my area? Who is writing about them? Etc. Etc.
Or links. What links appear to be authoritative in my area? What is the worth of a one-way link compared to a reciprocal one? Should I swap links with an Amsterdam hotel site? Should I swap links with a blog from a university professor? What outbound links are seen as credible by engines? Which ones can harm your site?
Or outside both those areas. How does my site architecture affect how search engines see it? What are potential pitfalls of the way I am structuring my URLs? Should I split my site into subdomains or directories or onto different domain names on different IPs? Do I need to worry about meta tags? How do traffic and conversions affect how search engines see my site or are likely to in the future? What role does advertising play in SEM and what dangers should I be aware of...
And no, I'm not selling my services either!
_____
Steve
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Dave R
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Jul 12, 2006, 12:15 PM
Post #6 of 10
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Re: [alpine] Links and directory links
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Hi Steve
Do you have any answers?
What do you call a quality site? Would that be a site full of links, or a site that is tastefully designed, attention to good spelling, punctuation and with accessibility to meet the needs of say screen readers or people with impaired vision. In accordance with AAA W3C access requirements?
At the end of the day anyone can publish a website about even the most uninteresting subject, with a world wide audience of only themselves. All the link exchange and meta data in the world is not going to make it popular. But that does not mean it is not a quality product. I'm sure Mr Berners Lee would concur.
I started to go through your list - but got bored. Sorry Steve, but this is very old stuff....nothing new to see here!!!
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alpine
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Jul 12, 2006, 1:42 PM
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Re: [Secret Agent] Links and directory links
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>>At the end of the day anyone can publish a website about even the most uninteresting subject, with a world wide audience of only themselves.
A good site is one that fulfils the goal it was made for. If the above is a goal, then good on the owner as they have achieved it.
Most websites however are published as a form of communication and that involves thinking about what the person with whom we want to communicate wants, needs and desires.
While I personally agree with a lot of your criteria of tastefulness, at the end of the day a website fulfils its function or it doesn't. I often work in a field where it is common for people spend a lot of money on websites which utterly fail to perform and all the design, content and correct spelling doesn't make a scrap of difference.
And while what I wrote may be very old and boring twaddle to you, "build it and they will come" is the oldest and most dishonest tosh in the book.
_____
Steve
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Dave R
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Jul 13, 2006, 3:13 AM
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Re: [alpine] Links and directory links
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Steve
This is the kind of stuff that was up for discussion in about 1995. It still has some very minute relevance. But TBH, it's as valuable in terms of information, as telling me the world is round. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I am just being my blunt and NOT dishonest self.
Kindest regards
Dave
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alpine
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Jul 13, 2006, 9:17 AM
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Re: [Secret Agent] Links and directory links
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Dave
Well, I guess it's just best then if we agree to disagree and return to our sites, with which we both appear abundantly happy!
_____
Steve
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